Then she spoke, saying, “They used to say in old times, ‘They shall surely ask counsel at Abel;’ and so they settled a matter.
Parallel Translations
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Then she spoke, saying, “They used to say in old times, ‘They shall surely ask counsel at Abel;’ and so they settled a matter.
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Then she spake, saying, They were wont to speak in old time, saying, They shall surely ask counsel at Abel: and so they ended the matter.
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Then she spoke, saying: 'They were wont to speak in old time, saying: They shall surely ask counsel at Abel; and so they ended the matter.
Cross-references (1)
Passages linked to 2 Samuel 20:18 in the Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, ordered by reader-vote popularity; verse text shown in World English Bible.
- Deuteronomy 20:10-11 When you draw near to a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace to it. It shall be, if it gives you answer of peace and opens to you, then it shall be that all the people who are found therein shall become forced laborers to you, and shall serve you.
Cross-references from openbible.info (CC BY 4.0)
Explain this verse (15 sources)
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Geneva Bible translators 1599 · Public Domain She showeth that the old custom was not to…
She showeth that the old custom was not to destroy a city before peace was offered, Deut. 20:10, 11.
Geneva Bible (1599) marginal notes — public domain.
John Trapp 1656 · Public Domain 2Sa 20:18 Then she spake, saying, They were wont…
2Sa 20:18 Then she spake, saying, They were wont to speak in old time, saying, They shall surely ask [counsel] at Abel: and so they ended [the matter].
Ver. 18. They shall surely ask counsel at Abel,] q.d., You need not take scorn to take my counsel, since I was born and bred at Abel, the common oracle of the whole country, and so famous for wisdom, as some places are for folly, {a} that people came from all parts to take advice there; the men of Abel were so well seen in {b} the laws. Most interpreters think that in these words, read according to the margin, she had respect to Deu 20:10-11, and blamed Joab that he had not first made proposals of peace: therefore in the next verse she saith in the name of her city, "I am one of those which are peaceable," i.e., which will not refuse the offer and order of peace.
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{a} Baeotum in patria, crassoque sub aere natus. Brabanti quo magis senescunt eo magis stultescunt. - Erasm.
{b} [Saw so well into.]
John Trapp, A Commentary or Exposition upon All the Books of the Old and New Testament (1647–1656) — public domain. Text from a community e-Sword module.
Matthew Poole 1685 · Public Domain According to this translation the sense is, This city…
According to this translation the sense is, This city which thou art about to destroy is no mean and contemptible one, but so honourable and considerable for its wisdom, and the wise people in it, that when any differences did arise among any of the neighbours, they used proverbially to say, We will ask the opinion and advice of the men of Abel about it, and we will stand to their arbitration; and so all parties were satisfied, and disputes ended. But there is another translation in the margin, embraced also by some others, which seems to be the best:
They (i. e. the citizens of this city) plainly (or, commonly) spake (among themselves) in the beginning, (to wit, when Sheba and his men first came into the city, and they were informed, that Joab was pursuing him,) saying, Surely they will ask of Abel, and so make an end. They will peaceably expostulate the business with us, and inquire why we received Sheba into our city; and whether we would deliver him up into their hands, and would inform us of the reason of their hostile attempt upon us, and offer to us conditions of peace, which by God’s law, Deu 20:10, they were to do even to strange, and much more to Israelitish cities. So she doth both modestly reprove Joab for the neglect of this duty, and oblige him to the performance of it.
Matthew Poole's English Annotations on the Holy Bible (1683–1685) — public domain. Text from a community e-Sword/MySword module.
John Gill 1763 · Public Domain Then she spake, saying, they were wont to speak…
Then she spake, saying, they were wont to speak in old time,.... It was a common saying, a proverbial expression among the ancient sages:
saying, they shall surely ask counsel at Abel, and so they ended the matter. Abel, it seems, had been a city so famous for wise and prudent men, that it was common for the inhabitants of other cities, in the several parts of the kingdom, when any controversy arose among them, to say to one another, since we cannot agree this matter among ourselves, let us go to Abel, and take advice there, and leave it to their arbitration; and so they did, and things were presently brought to an issue, and happily concluded; nay, when the king had a mind to make a decree or law, as R. Isaiah observes, he used to send to Abel to know whether they would submit to it; and if they agreed to it, then he proceeded in it; for other cities followed their example, so famous was this city, and of so great account: now the woman argues from hence, that surely such a renowned city should not hastily be destroyed; but the Targum directs to another sense, and which perhaps is best, and is followed by Jarchi, Kimchi, and others, paraphrasing the words thus,"she spake, saying, I remember now what is written in the book of the law, to ask a city first, saying, (will ye make peace?) so shouldest thou have asked of Abel, will ye make peace, or receive terms of peace?''referring to the law in Deu 20:10; signifying, if that had been attended to as it ought (for if such methods were to be taken with Heathen cities, much more with a city of Israel, as Abel was), things would soon have been agreed and issued; had Joab upon approaching the city proposed his terms of peace, they would have immediately yielded to them, and so the matter would have ended at once; for they were a peaceable people, as it follows: though Dr. Lightfoot (b) gives another sense of these words, that Sheba and his party when they came to the city,"they at first certainly said thus, that they would ask Abel of its peace (or on whose side it was), and so they made the matter entire, or made a show of their own integrity:''by which this woman assured Joab, that the men of Abel had not invited, nor willingly received Sheba and his rebels into the city, but they had deceived them by fawning and false words, pretending only to inquire about the peace and welfare of their city.
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(b) Works, vol. 2. p. 367.
John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible (1746–1763) — public domain (CC PDM 1.0). Text via the HelloAO Bible API.
John Wesley 1765 · Public Domain Ask counsel - This city which thou art about…
Ask counsel - This city which thou art about to destroy, is no mean and contemptible one, but so honourable and considerable for its wisdom, that when any differences arose among any of the neighbours, they used proverbially to say, We will ask the opinion and advice as the men of Abel about it, and we will stand to their arbitration; and so all parties were satisfied, and disputes ended.
John Wesley, Explanatory Notes Upon the Whole Bible (1754–1765) — public domain. Text via the GEBible commentary corpus.
Adam Clarke 1810 · Public Domain Verse 18. They shall surely ask counsel at Abel]…
Verse 18. They shall surely ask counsel at Abel] This is a proverb, but from what it originated we know not; nor can we exactly say what it means: much must be supplied to bring it to speak sense. Abel was probably famed for the wisdom of its inhabitants; and parties who had disputes appealed to their judgment, which appears to have been in such high reputation as to be final by consent of all parties. To this the wise woman refers, and intimates to Joab that he should have proceeded in this way before he began to storm the city, and destroy the peaceable inhabitants.
Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible (1810–1826) — public domain. Text from a community e-Sword/MySword module.
Albert Barnes 1834 · Public Domain This was an old proverb. Abel, like Teman, and…
This was an old proverb. Abel, like Teman, and some other places, was once famous for the wisdom of its inhabitants 1Ki 4:30-31. The wise woman was herself a remnant of this traditional wisdom.
Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible (1834–1885) — public domain. Text from a community e-Sword/MySword module.
Haydock's Catholic Bible Commentary 1859 · Public Domain End of their disputes, (Haydock) as Abela was remarkable…
End of their disputes, (Haydock) as Abela was remarkable for its wise counsellors, (Menochius) and equitable decisions; (Haydock) so that many came, from a distance, to consult the learned of this city. (Calmet) --- Others suppose that she refers to the law, which ordains that peace shall first be proposed, and, if this had been done, the affair would long ago have been decided, Deuteronomy xx. 10. (Jonathan; Estius; &c.) --- Hebrew, "They spoke a word at first: Let them ask at Abela, and so they shall make an end." Much must be supplied to make the text conformable to the former explication. We may translate, "They said, in ancient times: Let those who require more, go seek at Abela: so they finished their discourse." (Calmet) --- Protestants, "They shall surely ask counsel at Abel: and so the ended the matter."
George Leo Haydock (1774–1849), Haydock's Catholic Family Bible and Commentary, 1859 edition — public domain. Excludes Psalms (Douay-Rheims chapter numbering differs from Protestant) and Deuterocanonical books (Catholic canon only).
Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset & David Brown 1871 · Public Domain They were wont to speak in old time--The translation…
They were wont to speak in old time--The translation of the Margin gives a better meaning, which is to this effect: When the people saw thee lay siege to Abel, they said, Surely he will ask if we will have peace, for the law (Deu 20:10) prescribes that he should offer peace to strangers, much more then to Israelitish cities; and if he do this, we shall soon bring things to an amicable agreement, for we are a peaceable people. The answer of Joab brings out the character of that ruthless veteran as a patriot at heart, who, on securing the author of this insurrection, was ready to put a stop to further bloodshed and release the peaceable inhabitants from all molestation.
Jamieson, Fausset & Brown — Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (1871) — public domain (CC PDM 1.0). Text via the HelloAO Bible API.
Daniel D. Whedon 1874 · Public Domain 18. They were wont to speak in old time…
18. They were wont to speak in old time — Translated thus, the verse means that in former times Abel had been celebrated for the wisdom of its inhabitants, and persons were wont to resort thither for counsel. This wise woman, by calling attention to this fact, suggests that the counsel of Abel may be worth hearing now. This is the interpretation adopted by most critics; but to us the translation in the margin seems to suggest a simpler interpretation. We would translate and explain as follows: They (the inhabitants of Abel) would repeatedly speak at the beginning, (of the siege, when Joab’s army first appeared before the walls and began to cast up embankments,) saying, They will surely ask in Abel; (that is, ask what they want, or propose terms of peace before they proceed to destroy the city, as the law required, Deu_20:10;) and so they will cease, (that is, cease from or make an end of the war. They will thus cause the battle to cease.) According to this interpretation, the wise woman blamed Joab for beginning a siege without consulting its inhabitants and making known the object of his attack; and the sequel clearly implies that he had begun the siege without first demanding the surrender of Sheba.
Daniel D. Whedon (gen. ed.), Commentary on the Old and New Testaments (1874–1909) — public domain. Text from a community e-Sword module.
The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges 1878 · Public Domain 18. They shall surely ask counsel at Abel] Let…
18. They shall surely ask counsel at Abel] Let them by all means inquire of Abel. The phrase is that commonly used for inquiring of God. Cp. ch. 2Sa_16:23. The city had been proverbial for its wisdom from ancient times; men consulted it as an oracle for the settlement of their disputes; a city of such reputation, loyal moreover and peaceable, ought not, she implies, to be thus attacked. Possibly she means further to hint, that if Joab had consulted the inhabitants, as men were wont to do in olden times, and had negotiated for the surrender of Sheba, the siege might have been avoided. This rendering is certainly preferable to that in the margin: They plainly spake in the beginning, saying, Surely they will ask of Abel, and so make an end: which means that at the beginning of the siege the inhabitants expected Joab to communicate with the city and offer terms, in accordance with the law which prescribed that a city should be summoned to surrender before it was besieged (Deu_20:10 ff.). An ancient Jewish interpretation however explains the passage to refer to that law, for the Targum renders: “Remember now that which is written in the book of the law, to ask a city concerning peace at the first. Hast thou so done, to ask of Abel if they will make peace?” The Sept. rendering may be noted as curious, but is probably derived from a corrupt text and not to be adopted. “It was asked [conj. let them ask] in Abel and in Dan whether the customs have failed which the faithful of Israel ordained.”
The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges (gen. ed. J. J. S. Perowne; Cambridge University Press, 1878–1918) — public domain. Text from a community e-Sword module.
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers 1878 · Public Domain (18) Ask counsel at Abel.—The simplest and most obvious…
(18) Ask counsel at Abel.—The simplest and most obvious explanation is here the true one, viz., that Abel had become proverbial for its wisdom. An ancient Jewish interpretation, which has been incorporated into the Targum, is, however, of sufficient interest to be mentioned: “Remember now that which is written in the book of the Law to ask a city concerning peace at the first? Hast thou done so, to ask of Abel if they will make peace?” The reference is to Deu_20:10, &c.
A Bible Commentary for English Readers, edited by Charles John Ellicott (1878–1897) — public domain. Text from a community e-Sword module.
The Pulpit Commentary 1880 · Public Domain They were wont to speak, etc. The Hebrew literally…
They were wont to speak, etc. The Hebrew literally is, they used to say in old time, They shall surely ask at Abel; and so they finished (the matter). But of these words two completely distinct interpretations are given. The Jewish Targum records the one: "Remember now that which is written in the book of the Law, to ask a city concerning peace at the first. Hast thou done so, to ask of Abel if they will make peace?" The woman, that is, was referring to the command in Deu_20:10, not to besiege a city until peace had been offered to the inhabitants on condition of their paying tribute. When a city was captured the lot of the inhabitants, as the woman declares in ver. 19, was utter destruction; and the Law mercifully gave them the chance of escaping such a fate. Joab had not complied with this enactment, but had assumed that the people would support Sheba, and was proceeding to the last extremity without consulting them. This interpretation gives an excellent sense, but cannot be wrung out of the present Hebrew text without violence. The other interpretation is that of the Authorized Version, that the woman was commending her words to Joab, by reminding him that Abel had been famed in early times for its wisdom, and had probably been the seat of an oracle in the old Canaanite times. When, therefore, people had carried their dispute to Abel, both sides were content to abide by the answer given them, and so the controversy was ended. Literally, these words mean, "they shall surely inquire at Abel," the verb being that specially used of inquiring of God.
The Pulpit Commentary (1880–1919), ed. H.D.M. Spence-Jones & Joseph S. Exell — public domain. Text from a community e-Sword module.
The Biblical Illustrator 1887 · Public Domain They shall surely ask counsel at Abel.
2Sa_20:18
They shall surely ask counsel at Abel.
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An old-time custom
It will have to come to that again. Things cannot be settled really and lastingly except by counsel, wisdom, consent. The sword has had its day; it is a fools argument. What is the idea of the text that is translatable into the practice of all places and all ages? Whether there was an oracle at Abel, whether there was a counsel of referees there, whether this one wise woman had in her own hand, as it were, the decision of important controversies, we can never determine: suffice it to know that there was a time, holy, sabbatic time, when men said, Let us go to the little town of Abel and talk this matter out: and so they ended the matter. The point to which we should direct attention is that there comes a moment when things must be settled by authority. Blessed are they who consent to the constitution of that authority; then it is no longer despotism or tyranny, it is settlement by consent. In old time men were wont to take counsel at Abel; and so they ended the matter. They discussed it, canvassed it, threshed it out, and went into it through and through, saw what it was made of, and then, having done so, they put out hand to hand, and were men and brothers once more. This same principle is amongst us like a ghost. Sometimes we get it in a concrete form and work it into the very practice of life, yet it is ever amongst us as a kind of spectre, some being more or less afraid of it, some offering it hospitality, all acknowledging that if it really could be brought into play on a large and just basis it would settle everything.
I. The Abel of experience. There is an Abel, a venerable city, called Experience; why not go down to the Abel of experience, take counsel there: and so settle the matter? Experience ought to go for something. Experience is mans account of life. He tells you where he has been, what he has done, how he has conducted himself, and what results have accrued from the policies and the processes which he has adopted. We ought to hear that man. We always think there is a shorter cut than he took. Every age think it could work the programme better than Solomon worked it. For a long period this must go on, but the day will come when experience will go for something, when grey hairs will be taken as the symbols of philosophy, when the wrinkled face will itself be a title to be heard on all the practical questions and issues of life.
II. The Abel of time. Why not go to another aspect of this same experience, another corner of this same Abel, and consult Time? Why not admit Time to our counsels? Why leap at new theories? Why bristle up when the unpronouncable name of some lager-beer drinker is associated with some new mares nest in the realm of letters and theology? How many theories have come and gone! Where are they? Gone with the lager-beer! When men come to you with new theories, you should say, We must test these, or see them tested by long time. The Cross--the weird, grim, ghastly Cross--is nineteen centuries old, and it lifts itself up to-day the symbol of universal life. As for these theories and inventions of yours, it is only right that we should see how they bear the stress and the sifting of time. In old time our fathers were wont to come to the Abel of the Bible; venerable men would say, To the law and to the testimony! Perhaps they had too narrow a way of referring to the scriptures; they might make too much of a chapter and a verse, they might not sufficiently compare Scripture with Scripture and get their souls into the very genius of Divine revelation as to speak Biblically rather than textually: but their principle was right. They said, We know nothing of God but what is revealed, we know nothing of the future but what is written in the Book, we know nothing about sin and about redemption except what we are told by the revelation of God, as we believe it to be: therefore let us go to:
III. the Abel of the Bible, take counsel, and so end the matter. I am here to say in my own name, as the result of my own searching and experience, that I can get no answers to the greatest problems of mind and time equal in largeness, in precision, in hopefulness, to the answers that are given in the Bible. There are other answers, but I have found none that can stretch themselves with ease and dignity over the whole space of necessity. (J. Parker, D. D.)
Asking counsel at Abel
It has been supposed that the true interpretation of asking counsel at Abel is that Abel had become famous for its wisdom. In one of the Targums we read: Remember now that which is written in the book of the law, to ask a city concerning peace at the first. Hast thou done so to ask of Abel if they will make peace. No certain interpretation can be given to the words; but we are at liberty to remember that even superstition has sometimes played a useful part in history. Men have attached importance to times, places, emotions, and by so much have been checked in their impulses and subdued in their fiery ambitions. (J. Parker, D. D.)
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The Biblical Illustrator, edited by Joseph S. Exell (c. 1880s–1900s) — public domain. Text from a community e-Sword module.
Tyndale Open Study Notes 2022 · CC BY-SA 4.0 20:18-19 The woman told a saying to convince Joab…
20:18-19 The woman told a saying to convince Joab not to slaughter an entire city, especially such a noble city as Abel (a shortened form of Abel-beth-maacah, 20:15), just to capture one criminal. • an important town in Israel (literally a town that is a mother in Israel): It was common to refer to outlying villages around a larger city as its “daughters.”
Tyndale Open Study Notes — © Tyndale Open Resources, licensed CC BY-SA 4.0. Text via the HelloAO Bible API.