But if you are without discipline, of which all have been made partakers, then you are illegitimate, and not children.
Parallel Translations
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But if you are without discipline, of which all have been made partakers, then you are illegitimate, and not children.
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If ye be not vnder correccion (where of all are part takers) then are ye bastardes and not sonnes.
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If therefore ye be without correction, whereof al are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sonnes.
Examined in Scripture Analysis
Contradictions (1)
Questions where the Bible appears to say two different things, with the passages on each side set together.
Cross-references (4)
Passages linked to Hebrews 12:8 in the Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, ordered by reader-vote popularity; verse text shown in World English Bible.
- Hebrews 12:6 for whom the Lord loves, he disciplines, and chastises every son whom he receives.”
- 1 Peter 5:9-10 Withstand him steadfast in your faith, knowing that your brothers who are in the world are undergoing the same sufferings. But may the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a little while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.
- Psalms 73:1 Surely God is good to Israel, to those who are pure in heart.
- Psalms 73:14-15 For all day long I have been plagued, and punished every morning. If I had said, “I will speak thus”; behold, I would have betrayed the generation of your children.
Cross-references from openbible.info (CC BY 4.0)
Explain this verse (12 sources)
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John Trapp 1656 · Public Domain 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all…
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Ver. 8. Then are ye bastards] Qui exclpitur a numero flagellatorum, excipitur a numero filiorum, saith one. He that escapes affliction may well suspect his adoption. I have no stronger argument against the pope’s kingdom, saith Luther, than this, quod sine cruce regnat, that he reigns without the cross. They have no changes, surely they fear not God.
John Trapp, A Commentary or Exposition upon All the Books of the Old and New Testament (1647–1656) — public domain. Text from a community e-Sword module.
Matthew Poole 1685 · Public Domain But if God chasten you not, or if he…
But if God chasten you not, or if he do, and ye have not grace, or do not rightly endure it, are not managing yourselves well under it, nor are profited by it, when all and every one of his children are partakers of it, then are ye a false and spurious seed, and not God’s genuine offspring,
bastards in his account; and indeed so the most forlorn, wretched persons of all others, left under the power and dominion of sin, hurrying them on to their utter destruction, Joh 8:41. These visible church members have a bastardly disposition, hearts alienated from God and his law, and inclined to the will and works of the flesh, expressing it in their conversation, running into the excess of sin, having no chastening to restrain them, and are deserted by God for it, Isa 1:4-6; Hos 4:14,17.
Matthew Poole's English Annotations on the Holy Bible (1683–1685) — public domain. Text from a community e-Sword/MySword module.
John Gill 1763 · Public Domain But if ye be without chastisement,.... Or have no…
But if ye be without chastisement,.... Or have no affliction:
whereof all are partakers; that is, all the children of God; they are all alike children; they are all in a state of imperfection, and prone to sin; God has an impartial respect unto them: and though they are not all alike chastened, nor chastened at all times, yet none are exempted from chastisement, but have it in some way or another, and at some time or another.
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Then are ye bastards, and not sons; all are not sons that are under a profession of religion; all that are under a profession of religion are not chastised; but then those are not the children of God, but the children of the world, of Satan, and of the antichristian harlot; for though all that are chastised are not children, yet all that are children are chastised: hence we learn, that outward peace and prosperity is not a note of a true church; and that such have reason to distrust their state, who know not what it is to have the chastising rod of God upon them; and that afflictions are rather arguments for than against sonship.
John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible (1746–1763) — public domain (CC PDM 1.0). Text via the HelloAO Bible API.
John Wesley 1765 · Public Domain Of which all sons are partakers - More or…
Of which all sons are partakers - More or less.
John Wesley, Explanatory Notes Upon the Whole Bible (1754–1765) — public domain. Text via the GEBible commentary corpus.
Adam Clarke 1810 · Public Domain Verse 8. Then are ye bastards] This proceeds on…
Verse 8. Then are ye bastards] This proceeds on the general fact, that bastards are neglected in their manners and education; the fathers of such, feeling little affection for, or obligation to regard, their spurious issue. But all that are legitimate children are partakers of chastisement or discipline; for the original word παιδεια does not imply stripes and punishments, but the whole discipline of a child, both at home and at school.
Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible (1810–1826) — public domain. Text from a community e-Sword/MySword module.
Albert Barnes 1834 · Public Domain But if ye be without chastisement - If you…
But if ye be without chastisement - If you never meet with anything that is adapted to correct your faults; to subdue your temper; to chide your wanderings, it would prove that you were in the condition of illegitimate children - cast off and disregarded by their father.
Whereof all are partakers - All who are the true children of God.
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Then are ye bastards, and not sons - The reference here is to the neglect with which such children are treated, and to the general want of care and discipline over them:
“Lost in the world’s wide range; enjoin’d no aim,
Prescrib’d no duty, and assign’d no name.”
Savage.
In the English law, a bastard is termed “nullius filius.” Illegitimate children are usually abandoned by their father. The care of them is left to the mother, and the father endeavors to avoid all responsibility, and usually to be concealed and unknown. His own child he does not wish to recognize; he neither provides for him; nor instructs him; nor governs him; nor disciplines him. A father, who is worthy of the name, will do all these things. So Paul says it is with Christians. God has not cast them off. In every way he evinces toward them the character of a father. And if it should be that they passed along through life without any occurrence that would indicate the paternal care and attention designed to correct their faults, it would show that they never had been his children, but - were cast off and wholly disregarded. This is a beautiful argument; and we should receive every affliction as full proof that we are not forgotten by the High and Holy One who condescends to sustain to us the character, and to evince toward us, in our wanderings, the watchful care of a Father.
Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible (1834–1885) — public domain. Text from a community e-Sword/MySword module.
Haydock's Catholic Bible Commentary 1859 · Public Domain In these last four verses we may observe as…
In these last four verses we may observe as many subjects of consolation under afflictions. God, our Father, is the author of them; the chastisement he inflicts is the proof of his love; it is the sign or mark of our divine adoption; it is a necessary condition of our being adopted.
George Leo Haydock (1774–1849), Haydock's Catholic Family Bible and Commentary, 1859 edition — public domain. Excludes Psalms (Douay-Rheims chapter numbering differs from Protestant) and Deuterocanonical books (Catholic canon only).
Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset & David Brown 1871 · Public Domain if ye be without--excluded from participation in chastisement, and…
if ye be without--excluded from participation in chastisement, and wishing to be so.
all--all sons: all the worthies enumerated in the eleventh chapter: all the witnesses (Heb 12:1).
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are--Greek, "have been made."
then are ye bastards--of whom their fathers take no care whether they are educated or not; whereas every right-minded father is concerned for the moral well-being of his legitimate son. "Since then not to be chastised is a mark of bastardy, we ought [not to refuse, but] rejoice in chastisement, as a mark of our genuine sonship" [CHRYSOSTOM].
Jamieson, Fausset & Brown — Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (1871) — public domain (CC PDM 1.0). Text via the HelloAO Bible API.
Daniel D. Whedon 1874 · Public Domain 8. Nay, these persecutions are a proof of sonship,…
8. Nay, these persecutions are a proof of sonship, and should call forth a filial feeling.
All—The sons, as in the catalogue of chapter 11, and as in the case of we, (Heb_12:1,) and of Jesus, Heb_12:2. Suffering is the necessary condition of divine heroism, the badge of divine sonship, from the highest Son to the humblest.
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Bastards—Offspring of the harlot, and not sons of God. Such were the Judaic oppressors; sons of an adulterous Church, and exempt from the hierarchical persecution.
Daniel D. Whedon (gen. ed.), Commentary on the Old and New Testaments (1874–1909) — public domain. Text from a community e-Sword module.
The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges 1878 · Public Domain 8. whereof all are partakers] He speaks of God’s…
8. whereof all are partakers] He speaks of God’s blessed and disciplinary chastisement as a gift in which all His sons have their share.
The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges (gen. ed. J. J. S. Perowne; Cambridge University Press, 1878–1918) — public domain. Text from a community e-Sword module.
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers 1878 · Public Domain (8) Whereof all are partakers.—Better, whereof all (God’s children)…
(8) Whereof all are partakers.—Better, whereof all (God’s children) have been made partakers. Were it possible that they have never known this fatherly “chastening,” it must be that they are not sons whom a father acknowledges, and for whose training he has care.
A Bible Commentary for English Readers, edited by Charles John Ellicott (1878–1897) — public domain. Text from a community e-Sword module.
B. W. Johnson 1891 · Public Domain 8. If ye be without chastisement. Instead of that…
8. If ye be without chastisement. Instead of that being a fact for congratulation it only shows that God does not regard you as children. You may call yourselves God's children, but you are not true sons.
B. W. Johnson's The People's New Testament with Notes (1889–1891) — public domain. Electronic text from the Christian Classics Ethereal Library (CCEL) ThML edition.